PAYE Modernisation and Real Time Reporting (RTR)

5 implementation steps to ensure your outsourced payroll transition goes smoothly

The prospect of handing over responsibility for your payroll to an outsourced partner can be daunting enough, without having to worry about something going wrong during the implementation phase. In this blog, we explore 5 key steps to make sure the transition runs smoothly. 

5 Mistakes to Avoid When Implementing a Payroll Solution

Provided you’ve done the right research, implementing a new payroll solution will streamline your business and help you save the long run. But put the wrong payroll solution in place, or implement it in the wrong way, and you could end up having a bumpy road as you learn new systems which seem to delay your payroll rather than make it more efficient.

KPI's for Payroll: How to Measure Outsourcing Efficiency

We look at why payroll outsourcing success needs to be measured, along with our expert advice on the key KPIs for payroll that you should be analysing.

In-house vs outsourcing payroll costs – is outsourcing payroll cost effective?

If you’re wondering whether outsourcing payroll costs less than using an in-house team, take a look at all the ways outsourcing can be more cost effective.

Payroll Outsourcing – Payroll Implementation Process

Here are our simple steps to ensuring a successful payroll implementation process when transitioning to a payroll outsourcing partner.

Pros and cons of outsourcing payroll

If you’re tempted to move this complex business matter into the hands of an external provider, it’s important to remember that there are both pros and cons of outsourcing payroll.

5 things to consider when assessing your payroll maturity

As we emerge from Covid-19, one of the most economic and socially disrupting periods of our lifetime, it's critical for businesses to scrutinise and challenge their payroll operations. This is where the degree of your payroll maturity matters: it impacts your whole organisation, from operational efficiency and exposure to risk, to employee experience. 

5 ways our Payroll Gurus can support you through COVID-19

We’re here to help your payroll stay consistent during uncertain times. Find out how our experts can support you during this time.

6 reasons your HR and payroll struggled through Covid-19

It’s fair to say that HR and Payroll teams have been tested as the Covid-19 pandemic unfolded. But after several months of firefighting, many organisations recognise that they need to make significant changes to their payroll and HR operations. 

7 compelling benefits, beyond cost reduction, that make Payroll outsourcing so appealing

While cost reduction is the one thing everyone will take into consideration, there are other supplementary reasons why organisations believe it’s best to outsource their payroll function.

Switching payroll for 2021 and beyond: What does a great provider offer?

Even if your payroll provider seems to be doing a good job, is it good enough? Are they primed to look after and optimise your payroll in 2021 and beyond? This helpful guide walks you through why it’s important to review payroll providers as we head into the ‘never normal’.

7 ways a workforce management solution adds value to your organisation

Working smarter, becoming more efficient and driving cost savings are top of the list for most organisations, but many haven’t uncovered the missing link in their strategy: workforce management.

A day in the life of a Payroll Manager

Year on year, Payroll accounts for an ever-increasing contribution to the UK economy through Tax and National Insurance. This week, in partnership with CIPP, we're celebrating the impact of payroll on business.

So, in celebration of National Payroll week, we spoke with Lisa Brew, nominee for CIPP’s Payroll Professional of the Year 2017, to gain insight as to what a day in the life of a Payroll Manager entails.

Are we there yet? Reflection of 2016’s Payroll Services

The year 2016 has been a fairly strange one; the UK voted to leave the European Union, David Cameron resigned, we had our second female prime minister, many ministerial heads shuffled, the pound crashed, stock markets went up at their highest and Lynn Homer of HMRC retired! There is much to do to progress Britain into prosperity for the future...

Busting the myths of switching payroll providers

 Don’t let perceptions about switching payroll provider stop you from improving your payroll. In this article, we debunk the five most common myths of changing payroll providers.

Challenges of meeting legal minimum pay requirement: is it understood?

Minimum pay is governed by employment law, and breach is criminal; HM Revenue & Customs are charged with policing its application based on a number of significant factors and structures. In this blog, our Director of Payment, Benefits & Compliance Strategies, Simon Parsons, discusses critical touch points for compliance and recent payroll error examples regarding this legal requirment.

Christmas is coming to payroll teams

During Christmas and the associated holiday season, payroll managers experience some annual adjustments and events. Simon Parsons takes us through some of the festive benefits – and the associated tax implications.

Conference 2016 - Survey Results

600 people attended the Ceridian Conference 2016; find out their biggest challenges in new HR and Payroll legislation.

Debunking the myths of payroll outsourcing

Misconceptions around payroll outsourcing could be holding back your business. Our clients find that taking the step to outsource pays them back dividends, driving productivity and giving payroll teams the opportunity to focus on strategic rather than tactical initiatives. We understand that payroll outsourcing can be a daunting topic, so we have debunked some of the most common myths to help you make informed choices about your payroll strategy.

Does a rigid payroll cycle meet the needs of a flexible workforce in promoting Financial Wellbeing

Financial wellness is a hot topic across all worker types and generations. Employees are demanding more control, greater flexibility and better access to their finances. How can employers better support their employees in this regard?

Don’t be phased by pension minimum contribution

Since the introduction of workplace pension via Pension reform automatic enrolments (AE) since October 2012, there has been a slow introduction of legal requirements placed on UK PLC to provide workplace pension meeting legal minimum requirement. The early staging date employers have even hit triennial re-enrolment points to re-capture those who have previously opted out. 

Don’t work harder, work smarter: Why 2017 will be the year of global payroll

2016 has been an eventful year, with lots of social and political change occurring around the world. Change, of course, can be a great thing – it can bring new perspective and a fresh outlook, something which also holds true in the context of business and HR. And with the New Year fast approaching, now is an opportune time to start planning.

Everything you need to know about the Government’s £2 billion Kickstart scheme

Simon Parsons, Director UK Compliance Strategies, SD Worx UK & Ireland, discusses the Government’s Kickstart scheme which aims to create thousands of jobs for young people across the UK.

Flexible furlough - Changes to the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme

HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) has updated guidance in readiness for the commencement of the second part of the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme (CJRS). Simon Parsons, Director of Payments, Benefits & Compliance Strategies at SD Worx UK, shares his interpretation of the changes and what this could mean for employers.

Flexible rewards: going fluid to match key priorities

COVID-19 has forced companies to reassess their priorities. Getting the basics right, such as payroll duties, is now by far the number one concern. Besides that, we see both a strong shift towards cost-efficiency and increased emphasis on employee experience, including personalisation and work-life balance. Although these three objectives could be met effectively by turning the spotlight on to flexible rewards, few companies seem to see the connection. 

Four payroll plans to focus on in 2017

Payroll is a standard pillar that all businesses need to get right in order to avoid inefficiency and increased costs. Despite this, many organisations are still working with outdated and ineffective payroll systems that eat into valuable HR time, and business profit. So if you’re a payroll or HR professional with a plan to streamline costs and processes in 2017 but don’t know where to begin, here are four key things to help you get the New Year off to a good start...

Furlough advice: Debunking salary sacrifice and benefits in kind myths

Simon Parsons, Director of Compliance strategies, SD Worx UK, responds to the Government’s new advice regarding payrolling benefits in kind. 

Gender pay gap: 3 ways effective HR solutions could help

Part two of our blog, our Commercial Director John Cusack and Business Development Manager Steve Knapman, built upon the information outlined by Mercer in part 1 – and discuss how SD Worx’s analysis tools can provide you with in-depth statistics on the gender pay gap. Read more on some of the useful points that we took away from the webinar...

Gender Pay Gap Reporting: All you need to know

The gender pay gap has been a hot topic for years, dominating discussion in the media and in boardrooms. Seemingly refusing to close, the gap stood at 9.4% in 2016, down from 17.4% in 1997. While the UK is getting nearer and nearer to gender parity in pay, figures suggest it still has a long way to go...

Global payroll: The challenge of looking local

Globalisation is a word synonymous with the rise of industry. However, recently we may have heard it thrown around a boardroom alongside the other generic buzzwords, and as such something about it becomes disjointed and bereft of purpose. In reality, globalisation is a powerful force – something that should be cultivated and respected in the corporate world.

Guidance for employers on the New Starter Checklist (previously P46 form)

In this article, Simon Parsons offers updated advice for employers on how to ensure that the New Starter Checklist (formerly P46 form) is submitted correctly.

Holiday Pay 2020 – Are You Ready?

There have been many publications about the Good Work Plan over the past 18 months and it can be confusing to work through complex, legislative documentation to understand how you stay compliant. While the good work plan covers many topics, this blog aims to take you through one aspect of this, Holiday Pay, and asks the simple question – are you ready for the changes?

How does COVID-19 affect employee pensions?

Discover how Coronavirus is affecting employee pensions and get to grips with The Pension Regulators advice.

How payroll can prevent a breakdown in employee trust

With workers concerned about their health and job security, it is vital payroll teams look at what they can do to improve confidence, so workers don’t lose faith in the company they work for. This blog examines how good payroll and workforce management can increase employee trust.

How payroll influences the entire employee lifecycle

In this blog, we outline how payroll influences the entire employee lifecycle and how a strategic approach can be the driver for change in your business or organisation.  

How long does managed payroll implementation take?

Managed payroll implementation doesn’t take as long to set up as you might think. Our dedicated implementation team will ensure the whole process runs smoothly. Take a look at our average timelines for implementation.

In-house payroll vs managed service

This article is intended to give a balanced view of payroll software versus payroll services. In the UK, the markets for payroll software and service co-exist and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

International Employees and UK PAYE complexities

Increasingly within global organisations we see that individuals have increasing international activity throughout a business’ empire with differing national fiscal obligations. Impact on employees and compliance with a variety of national fiscal government obligations brings into play significant complexities. Some will be available within Payroll Software or service, whereas others, a little more obscure, may require special handling. For UK Payroll, there are a variety of variants (to the normal) Pay As You Earn (PAYE) obligations.

Keep Britain Paid: Statutory Sick Pay Guidelines for employers

We’ll help you make sense of the government’s advice on Statutory Sick Pay and taking care of your employees during COVID-19.

Moving payroll provider? Tips for a smoother switch

 Follow our tips to make moving payroll suppliers as smooth as possible.

Everything you need to know about moving to Managed Payroll

Misconceptions around payroll outsourcing could be holding back your business. Our customers find that moving to a managed payroll service pays them back dividends, driving productivity, increasing ROI and giving payroll teams the opportunity to focus on strategic rather than tactical initiatives.

We understand that managed payroll can be a daunting topic, so we’ve put together some useful information to help you make an informed choice about your payroll strategy.

The complete guide to outsourcing your payroll in 2021 [Free 121 business case support]

This guide will walk you through the process of outsourcing your payroll and show you how unexpectedly simple moving to managed payroll can be.

How to write a winning business case for outsourced payroll [Free business case template]

In this practical guide, we’ll break down the process of writing a business case for moving to outsourced payroll into bite-sized chunks and provide you with practical tips when it comes to managing the process and presenting your case. We’ve also included a handy template for you to follow.

National Payroll Week 2020

National Payroll Week: Championing your payroll pioneers. At SD Worx, we’re known for being the ‘Payroll People’ and we have some pretty amazing individuals who love payroll just as much as we do. But now it’s over to you. Who is YOUR payroll hero?

National Payroll Week: Q&A with Simon Parsons

This week, in partnership with CIPP, we’re celebrating National Payroll Week where we recognise the impact of payroll on business and the contribution it makes to the UK economy - £418 million annually!

To kick off our celebration, we sat down for a payroll-themed Q&A session with Simon Parsons, one of the most influential names in the industry and our Director of Payments, Benefits & Compliance Strategies.

New Year resolutions – preparing for the UK new tax year

UK payroll managers have a new year window of 3 months to prepare for the much older UK (and Isle of Man) new tax year start. With the setting of new year resolutions, it is a good time for payroll professionals in the UK to review their preparations on items which are not purely system change, but challenge process and rules within employment.

Our Payroll Services Director's tips to keep operations running smoothly

Paul Thickett, SD Worx Payroll Services Director, shares how he’s keeping the UK paid and motivating his team during this challenging time.

Our Sales Director's guide to motivating your remote team

In our second #KeepItHuman interview, Oliver Mead, SD Worx Sales Director, discusses how he’s helping his team to adapt to remote working.

Outsourcing payroll is about gaining, not losing, control

When it comes to outsourcing payroll, people often feel nervous. Relinquishing control to a third party is a big step. But are you really losing control when you outsource payroll? Our blog explores why this isn’t the case

P45(1) Leaver Form

This article focuses on the P45(1) Leaver, practices currently undertaken by many payroll offices, the potential challenge of in-year filing requirements and also compliance with the relevant regulations.

Pandemic proof payroll

How to build resilience into your new normal strategy

Payroll fraud costs UK businesses £12 billion a year – here’s how to stop it

Every year UK businesses lose £12 billion from payroll fraud. In this blog we’ll explain the common types of payroll fraud and share tips on how to stop it from happening to your business.

Payroll of the future: personalised technology

A recent ‘Workplace of the Future’ survey of 250 industry professionals revealed that 88% of CFOs and CHROs expect an increase in payroll technology investment by 2025. Why? The world of work is changing rapidly and to prepare for the workforce of the future, businesses must start adapting, quickly.

Payroll Week 53 payment. When it’s right, it’s wrong!

In some tax years, the way pay dates fall for weekly based payrolls means that an employer ends up making one more payment than usual to employees at the end of the tax year.

For weekly payroll this is known as a Week 53, for a 27th fortnightly payroll a Week 54, and for a 14th Lunar a Week 56 payment.

Payslip law changes April 2019 – ‘For the hour is nigh and the day soon at hand’

The law requires that a payslip is provided to all employees each time they are paid. The exception to this legal requirement means that for the following there is no obligation to provide a payslip, non-employees: contractors, freelancers and workers. There are additional categories where a payslip is not required: police service; merchant seaman; master and crew of share fishing vessel.

Q&A with our Payroll guru: Your furlough & SSP questions answered

Our resident payroll and legislation guru answers your questions about furlough and SSP.

Revealing the hidden costs of in-house payroll

Revealing the hidden costs of in-house payroll vs. outsourcing, this blog presents a perspective that could save you money in the long-term, improve your payroll and help you stay competitive.

Ring out the old, ring in the new!

We thought 2013 was busy with the introduction of Real Time Information, but looking back it now seems a doddle! 2016 is proving to be one of the most substantial change years ever for payroll, software and service providers and especially payroll managers. Never before have I seen such a wide, heavy plethora of change. Now seems a good time to start the preparations in earnest and put the brain in gear...

Say goodbye to payroll pitfalls: Going global in 2017

As the business world becomes ever more disparate and global, it comes as no surprise that managing payroll across multiple markets is presenting more challenges than ever before. To delve into the issues at hand, our SD Worx Global solution and services team recently conducted pan-European research to gauge a better understanding of the key payroll challenges impacting modern multinationals, as well as the changes that industry professionals want to see in the New Year.

Scotland vs. UK Payroll - Q&A with Simon Parsons

With the result of the UK referendum to leave the European Union and indication by Scotland's first minister to run a further Devolution referendum, Simon Parsons considers the potential implications for the next few years for Scotland and Payroll services...

Latest SD Worx Covid-19 Customer Information

Discover the latest customer information update from SD Worx regarding the Covid-19 virus. 

SD Worx European Conference: Driving Collaboration in the HR and Payroll Industry

On 6^th February at Hilton Park Lane in London, we joined HR and payroll professionals from across the globe for the SD Worx European Conference 2018. With the "Future of Collaboration: HR leading the way" theme, this one-of-a-kind event played host to industry-leading experts, practitioners and organisations.

Show your employees what they really earn

Offering an interesting and competitive pay package, but not highlighting it afterwards, is a bit like a rainbow in the dark. As not even half of employees regularly look at their payslip, many will undoubtedly lose sight of what they actually earn. Pointlogic's software package inspire is an excellent tool for making it clear to employees what they receive in addition to their salary, and acts as an incentive for greater motivation and engagement.

So Much More Than Payroll: Employer Responsibility in the Modern Workforce

News of poor payroll can spread like wildfire. The sign of a good payroll function is often that it takes place quietly in the background. If it goes wrong however, it can have a catastrophic impact on both employees and the business as a whole.

Stay in control by outsourcing your payroll

Debunking outsourcing myths, this blog explains how you can confidently move to fully managed payroll whilst retaining and even improving control.

The Apprentice

In the 2015 Queens speech, the Government set out to create 3 million new apprenticeships by 2020. As part of the Enterprise Bill, apprenticeships would gain the same legal treatment of degrees. ‘The Richard Review’ brings new standards being developed by ‘trailblazers’ and new funding trialled giving employers greater control over spend on training delivery.

The challenges of managing payroll systems in different countries

The topic of a managing global payroll systems has been voiced by many thoughts leaders in the industry. In our previous blog, Doug Sawers, Managing Director of SD Worx UK & Ireland went into detail on the matter. This week, we sat down with David Munn, Director of Global Payroll Services, where he shares his views. 

The Coronavirus: A message from our CEO

The COVID-19 virus situation is developing rapidly and affecting us all, both personally and economically. We want to assure you that we are here for you, and that you and your employees can continue to count on our services. 

The Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme: How to make a furlough claim

What is the process of putting in a claim for furlough? We get to grips with the steps you need to undertake.

The Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme – What you need to know about ‘furlough’

Has your business temporarily closed? Find out how the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme could support your business. 

The end of the road for the company car?

With the ever-increasing benefit costs for company cars for both the employee and the employer, and the new rules for Optional Remuneration Arrangements (OpRA), is a company car as cost-effective as it once was?

The gig economy’s impact on payroll

The gig economy has disrupted the status quo of work with its capability to affect economies around the world and has transformed industries by instant disruption through digital innovation.

Some commentators argue it is a terrifying future; others have a more positive outlook suggesting this disruption unlocks opportunities that must be embraced so society can evolve and improve.

The legal obligations of processing data under GDPR: Part 1

GDPR is set to see the biggest shake-up in the way we handle data since the Data Protection Act of 1998. Over the last few years, the processing and control of data has seen many systematic changes. Updated legal obligations set out in the Regulation such as the ‘lawful basis’ of the processing of data is sure to see more changes to data handling.

The legal obligations of processing data under GDPR: Part 2

Retention of the personal data is ‘lawful basis’ where it is necessary, for compliance with a legal obligation, for the exercise or defence of legal claims. For Payroll and HR reasons, employers must hold and retain personal information about their employees and former employees to meet these legal requirements.

The payment after leaving

Payroll managers still receive instruction from HR departments and solicitors that a termination payment must be taxed at Basic Rate. Why these continue to be demanded since the rules changed on payment after leaving we do not know.

The true cost of switching payroll providers

It might have been costly to change payroll suppliers twenty years ago, but thanks to modern technology it doesn’t cost nearly as much as resource and time as you might think. Uncover the truth in our blog.

The value of HR & Payroll in a post COVID-19 world

Payroll and HR data has the potential to unlock strategic value that has not previously been so readily available and accurate.

Payroll must go on

Global Payroll Week is an annual opportunity to put the world of payroll in the spotlight. At SD Worx, we have relied on our payroll specialists during the past month more than ever before. Despite the unravelling pandemic  and the most bizarre social circumstances we have faced in a long while, all salaries were processed smoothly and on time. That's quite a feat.

It's time for finance leaders to get serious about payroll

Businesses are waking up to the power of payroll. Agile financial leaders are prioritising investment in payroll technology and automation through SaaS or outsourced solutions. Read our blog to find out why.

It’s time to review your payroll strategy

Senior professionals predict major changes to the workforce by 2025. According to our research The Workforce of the Future, working part-time, freelance or being able to choose hours/days will be favoured over traditional working styles. Employees will expect more support and advice on financial matters, and Payroll and HR will align more closely to provide this. Payroll will become much more influential in attracting and retaining employees. As a result, 78% of professionals say that payroll needs to evolve and innovate, and technology will be key. 

'Tis the season to be jolly!

With Christmas upon us, payroll managers will be experiencing some annual adjustment planning with the holiday season. In this blog I explore some of the most common scenarios in December's pay cycle.

Towards the goal of a single global payroll

A few years ago, what was then Ernst and Young (now EY) reported in its paper Global Payroll: Myth or Reality? that 55% of multinational firms believed that single provider global payroll vendors didn’t exist.

True Love Lies in Payroll and HR

In today's world, "human capital management" seems to be the hot topic of choice. A complete HCM solution covers all the people related processes and data in an organisation, and by its very nature can get pretty full on and complicated to implement, with greater upheaval and cost involved. For that reason, it is not always appropriate for an organisation to consider changing all aspects of their HCM in one fell swoop.

Understanding Salary Sacrifice

Employer representatives sitting on the Statutory Payments Consultation Group have been pleading with the various government agencies involved in Statutory Payments to make clearer what employers have to do to comply with Maternity Rights, especially in light of the extension of rights to non-cash benefits.

Understanding your payslip

As an employee, sometimes it’s not clear what everything actually means on your payslip. To help educate the nation, we’ve created a list of some of the most common terms that can appear on your payslip, along with an associated description.

What happens when you first move to our managed service

It’s natural to have concerns about moving your payroll operations to a managed supplier, but we’re here to put your mind at ease. We’ve got your back. Moving to our managed payroll service is not as complicated as you might think.

What payroll professionals need to know about the new lockdown restrictions

The UK prime Minister announced new lockdown restrictions in response to increasing Coronavirus cases. What do the new restrictions mean for payroll and HR professionals in the UK? Find out more in our blog.

What is innovative payroll and why do you need it?

Until recently, payroll has not been given high strategic importance and so has never needed to be particularly innovative. The modern, fast-evolving workforce is now driving significant changes to this status quo however, with both managers and employees looking to embrace disruptive technology that helps the business to innovate and transform.

Why integration can be make or break for outsourced payroll

Integration has to be a priority consideration whenever an organisation is looking to choose an outsourced payroll partner. Our blog explores the key considerations.

Why it’s time for payroll to get into analytics

Step back in time five years and you would struggle to move for articles and white papers on big data and analytics. These were the hottest topics in technology and the excitement surrounding them was at its peak. Last year, analyst Gartner dropped its hype cycle for Big Data, confirming in an article, entitled: The Demise of Big Data, Its Lessons and the State of Things to Come” that “we did it to move the big data discussion past hype and into practice”. Certainly when it comes to the HR arena, big data and the analytics tools that can be built on top of it are now in a maturing phase.

Why more CFOs are turning to outsourcing post-covid

Savvy CFOs and finance leaders have spotted an opportunity to maximise ROI and increase operational resilience by outsourcing payroll operations. We explain the financial benefits in our blog.

Celebrating one year of Payroll Question Time

To celebrate the one-year anniversary of Payroll Question time, we spoke to the panelists about how the industry has changed in the last 12 months, what HR and payroll professionals need to focus on in 2021 and beyond, and what’s next for Payroll Question Time?

Why outsourcing takes the risk out of payroll

Payroll faces constant challenges caused by limited budgets, changing personnel, evolving technology, new legislation and more. Here’s why outsourced payroll remove the risk.

Why is payroll your secret weapon? Q&A with payroll expert Samantha Mann

Payroll expert and ex CIPP Policy Lead, Samantha Mann, tells us how she fell into the world of payroll and her predictions on how payroll will change in the next 10 years.

Why Payroll knowledge is retained within the business when outsourcing

When senior HR or Finance leaders consider outsourcing payroll, one concern often raised is that they will lose knowledge, in the form of internal expertise or skilled personnel. When you take a closer look at how outsourcing works, however, you could make the case that the opposite is true.

Why Payroll should embrace disruptive technology

‘Disruptive’ technology is technology that replaces old ways of doing things. For example, the smartphone has revolutionised the way we interact with friends, family, institutions & media. When SD Worx launched online payslips in 1999 this was met with concern around security & access. Fast-forward to 2018, and no credible provider is without a mobile payslip. In short the smartphone has disrupted the market and most people have moved on from paper.

Making the case for outsourcing payroll

During May, we hosted a series of virtual roundtables with a range of Heads of HR and Payroll. Whilst the conversations were wide ranging, in this article we will summarise a few of the key topics discussed and the conclusions reached.

Why you should always be prepared for a payroll audit

As a leader in payroll and/or finance, you know that payroll is subject to HMRC rules that are complex and changeable. This blog explains the importance of benchmarking your payroll processes to ensure they are always ‘audit-friendly’ and efficiently adding value to your organisation.

Workforce management, your secret weapon in a crisis (and beyond)

The right workforce management module can help businesses stay afloat during these tough times and avoid common pitfalls.

Your Payroll Team vs Our Payroll Pioneers

Payroll is essential to your business. You can’t afford to get it wrong. Our Managed Payroll Pioneers give you the best of both worlds; market-leading payroll software delivered by exceptional payroll professionals. Why settle for anything less?